pat hayes
Hi All,
I am new to this forum and to Sonata sailing. I recently bought my boat and have been out in it a few times. I am having problems tacking the boat, specifically getting past the tiller onto the new windward rail. The boat has the usual centre cockpit traveller and a bar from this to the transom. It also has a ratchet block mounted aft of the traveller. The forward end of the tiller almost touches the last fall of main sheet to the ratchet block. When I tack the tiller either gets stuck around my legs and I struggle to centre it after going through head to wind and end up on a beam reach. I have tried pushing the tiller hard over but the boats then tacks very quickly. I have only been out is relatively light winds so far but I think both scenarios will be unsafe in stronger winds. Has anyone else had similar problems and how did they solve them?
I have been looking on the Sonata website for pictures and any video footage of different boat layouts and boats tacking. I wonder if people could comment please on the two items below:-
1. the images on the hint and tips section regarding traveller setup show tillers that I believe are a good bit shorter than mine. Either that or the traveller in these images are further forward than mine. What is the recommended length of a typical tiller? Some of the advice on boat rigging suggested cutting 6inches off the end of the tiller. Before I start cuttings bits off the tiller does any know how this will affect the weight on the tiller (ie the load felt on the tiller when sailing). Have other people shortened their tiller and if so by how much and has this caused any problems?
2. I have seen two methods of getting from one side to the other when tacking. One person appears to lift the tiller vertically as they tack. This was on a day when the winds were light so I am not sure how this would work when the winds are stronger. The other method that I have seen is where a person rotates around the front of the tiller with their back facing forwards as they cross the centre of the boat. I would appreciate if people could let me know what they have found to be the most effective method. Could someone please let me know what the top guys do apart from making it look very easy?
Has anyone ever considered moving the traveller forward to just aft of the companionway? Is this allowed within the rules? Does anyone know whether this causes any problems?
Finally is there a tuning and training booklet/video etc available from the association?
Thanks for help
Pat
Chris Bentley
Hi Pat,
Welcome to the Sonata Class. I appreciate your difficulties with the tiller. The common, and simplest answer is to shorten the tiller. Moving the track is not a legal option. On BFG, I have kept to the original tiller length for two reasons; I sometimes sail single-handed and I then sit out forward of the track using a tiller extension which is longer than the tiller itself. I would struggle to be able to do this with a short tiller; secondly, I prefer the extra sensitivity I think I get. (this may be real or imaginary as I have never tried a shorter tiller)!
The way I tack is to face aft. I initiate the tack with about 30º of ‘helm down’. I then step into the gap between the tiller and the mainsheet as the boat levels up. Once past head to wind I jump/step, depending on the speed of the tack, onto the new windward side deck which gets my weight up. BFG has two things which help me achieve this; the Steve Goacher traveller arrangement with two cars on a full width track and a foot rest, which doubles as the fixing point for the mainsheet fixed block under the traveller. When I am next on the boat, I can take a photo if you like. Some boats, not sure if yours is one, have a “Granny Bar” about 8″ off the cockpit floor between the track and the transom which achieves the same objective as my foot pad. Personally, I dislike this arrangement because when I sailed a boat with one I regularly bruised my shin on it as I tacked, but with practice I expect this can be avoided. Around the fleet there are many foot-rest/bar arrangements, some quite inventive, but the object is the same. To get a foot purchase to lever yourself up onto the windward deck and, in heavy weather, to keep your balance up there.
Facing aft tacking is actually the RYA method for centre-mainsheet dinghies. Watch any good Laser sailor. It does take practice to get the timing and the angles right. Start by doing really slow ones and timing it with your cockpit crew sheeting the headsail. Watch your wake as you turn – the new wake should be roughly at right-angles to the old one with no ‘wiggles’ in it from oversteering. Its faster to do a smooth slow tack in concert with your cockpit than a quick tack with a wiggle in it!
For tuning and sailing tips, and also an explanation of his mainsheet arrangement, go to Steve Goacher’s website. There’s a link on our site here.
Let us know how you get on.
Chris
pat hayes
Hi Pat,
Welcome to the Sonata Class. I appreciate your difficulties with the tiller. The common, and simplest answer is to shorten the tiller. Moving the track is not a legal option. On BFG, I have kept to the original tiller length for two reasons; I sometimes sail single-handed and I then sit out forward of the track using a tiller extension which is longer than the tiller itself. I would struggle to be able to do this with a short tiller; secondly, I prefer the extra sensitivity I think I get. (this may be real or imaginary as I have never tried a shorter tiller)!
The way I tack is to face aft. I initiate the tack with about 30º of ‘helm down’. I then step into the gap between the tiller and the mainsheet as the boat levels up. Once past head to wind I jump/step, depending on the speed of the tack, onto the new windward side deck which gets my weight up. BFG has two things which help me achieve this; the Steve Goacher traveller arrangement with two cars on a full width track and a foot rest, which doubles as the fixing point for the mainsheet fixed block under the traveller. When I am next on the boat, I can take a photo if you like. Some boats, not sure if yours is one, have a “Granny Bar” about 8″ off the cockpit floor between the track and the transom which achieves the same objective as my foot pad. Personally, I dislike this arrangement because when I sailed a boat with one I regularly bruised my shin on it as I tacked, but with practice I expect this can be avoided. Around the fleet there are many foot-rest/bar arrangements, some quite inventive, but the object is the same. To get a foot purchase to lever yourself up onto the windward deck and, in heavy weather, to keep your balance up there.
Facing aft tacking is actually the RYA method for centre-mainsheet dinghies. Watch any good Laser sailor. It does take practice to get the timing and the angles right. Start by doing really slow ones and timing it with your cockpit crew sheeting the headsail. Watch your wake as you turn – the new wake should be roughly at right-angles to the old one with no ‘wiggles’ in it from oversteering. Its faster to do a smooth slow tack in concert with your cockpit than a quick tack with a wiggle in it!
For tuning and sailing tips, and also an explanation of his mainsheet arrangement, go to Steve Goacher’s website. There’s a link on our site here.
Let us know how you get on.
Chris
Hi David and Chris,
Thanks for the replys. For info Chris my boat does have the “granny bar” as well as the bridle arrangement as described by Steve Goacher. I think the bridle is a little too long because I can’t pull the boom in any further than slightly to leeward of the centre line of the boat. I would appreciate Chris if you wouldn’t mind taking a couple of shots of your boat the next time you are on it and sending to me please. If you could take a measure the length of one of the bridle legs and your tiller at the same time it would be much appreciated.
I am not sure if the “granny bar” is causing me any problems. I come from a dinghy sailing background and have been racing up until relatively recently so am used to stepping over and under various bits in confined cockpits so the bar shouldn’t be a problem. But then tacking a 23ft yacht with a cockpit big enough for 3 people as compared to a 12 ft dinghy with a cockpit big enough for a cat also shouldn’t be a problem. I will keep an eye on this and may consider changing if it is an issue, thus far however other parts of me are bruised when I get off the boat but my shins are fine.
Chris would you mind giving me an outline of the routine you go through as you tack for instances:-
Which hand do you normally hold the tiller and main sheet with when on a particular tack (ie forward or aft?) When tacking do you swap hands before you commence to tack or after you have tacked and everything has settled down on the heading? Do you cleat and drop the main sheet as you tack or hold on to it and have to swap hands on the new windward side deck? If the latter are there any issues to watch out for as you unwrap the main sheet from behind your back. I will be sailing with limited number of crew for a while so they have enough to do to trim the head sail therefore I will be helming as well as trimming the mainsail. In terms of body position, do you drop into the cockpit off the side deck before pushing the tiller or do you simply go from one side deck to another as you go through the tack. Sorry for the 20 questions but I am trying to get a sequence clear in my mind before I go out and practice.
Thanks also for the info re changing the position of the main sheet track. In terms of other possible changes to the layout of the boat has putting an extra block aft of the current jib sheet cleat with the sheet led to this block before the turning block to the cleat ever been considered. I have seen this arrangement on other boats which provides a 2 to 1 purchase on the sheet. I hope I am not reopening a can of worms that has been debated previously with this question?
As I will be sailing a maximum of 2 others for most of the time is it worth putting some ballast down below to weight the boat down a bit. I would need to secure it properly but as my total crew weight could be about 120kg lighter than typical crew for this boat I wondered if this is worth doing.
Regards
Pat
Dave Bilsland
I step over the tiller from side bench to side bench as I don’t fit in the gap between the tiller and the traveller